Adam Green and Downloads

[Pumpkin]

Am sure most of you have seen his twitter activity but thought I would post it here. Raises the good debate about downloads:

Honestly I can't believe the audacity of some people to steal my film and f**k over all of the people who worked on it and then have the balls to tell me that they stole it- but that it's "all right" because they liked it and are a "fan"?? Fuck them. My own personal favourite douchebag was the asshole who kept trying to say that it's "not stealing" because he pays $60 a month for internet at his house.

???!!?

Glad they are fans and that they like my films, but it's people like them that are pulling the switch in the gas chamber that is our industry. HATCHET 1 was downloaded illegally over 100,000 times before it was released- which almost made it so that I would never get to make another film and that there was almost not a sequel. But just like the rest of the anonymous self entitlement that comes along with the internet, people think it's OK to steal a film simply because they can. It's absolutely no different than walking into Best Buy and stealing it and in the case of those of us who need the ticket and DVD sales to prove that we have an audience and should get another shot at making a film- it destroys us. Sadly, downloading doesn't count to the powers that be as this is a business, not a charity for them. The bottom line is how many TICKETS, DVD SALES and RENTALS are accounted for- not stolen downloads which frankly are usually not even finished films and are always bad quality and watched in the worst possible ways- like on a laptop!

So yeah, that's great if you love my films- but if you stole them you totally just f**ked over me and all of the people I love and work with. So eat a dick and I hope your next download gives you f**king cancer. In what other business would someone rob another person and still actually think it's OK to the point that they actually take OFFENSE when the one being robbed gets p*ssed? That's like me stabbing you in the chest repeatedly and then saying "What?" STAB " Why are you getting so mad?" STAB "What??" I swear the internet, for all it's good, has brought out the absolute worst side of humanity. I only pray that Bill Gates is developing a way to send STD's through to message board trolls and thieves. I have no compassion for those that hurt me and even LESS for those that do something so horrible and then feel entitled enough to get offended when I speak out in my own defense.

AG

[Satans Puppy]

Ouch, the sad thing is I was just defending Adam in a forum because someone on assumed he was a touch, well overly arrogant. He mentioned the pirate thing and ouuuuuch the man is angry and it's understandable, frozen leaked a while back onto the web and with it's release looming he's gotta be worried these thousands of downloads will harm sales and affect funding in the future.

But piracy is something that won't be stopped, hell I download the tv shows we don't get over here. But if films are leaking before release then someone needs to check with the distributor or where review copies are being sent...

Some pr firms are very strict with screeners and others, not so picky lol

You can't have a film leak before release and then blame everyone who downloads it, the people protecting the property are the ones who helped it get there in the first place...

It's bad yes but in some cases it actually helps a film.. Who was the guy that had his film hit the mainstream thanks to all the 'online' interest? I'm going to google!

Adam has a right to protect his property though, so good on him... But as I said above it may have affected some of the fans that have yet to meet him.

[MaxRenn]

You can't have a film leak before release and then blame everyone who downloads it, the people protecting the property are the ones who helped it get there in the first place...

It's bad yes but in some cases it actually helps a film.. Who was the guy that had his film hit the mainstream thanks to all the 'online' interest? I'm going to google!

Adam has a right to protect his property though, so good on him... But as I said above it may have affected some of the fans that have yet to meet him.

Well you can choose not to download the leaked film.

More to the point what really seems to have stuck in Adam Green's craw is that he is getting shit for this from people telling him he should be grateful for them downoading the film and then blogging and tweeting about how great it is. This is a bullshit excuse for stealing someone's work. Especially that of an independent filmmaker. Go ahead and download leaked studio pictures if you like, I don't, but I really don't care if anyone else does because it isn't going to hurt Transformers 3 or whatever. But a movie like Frozen is really damaged by this, and the more it's downoaded, the less likely that it will be screened in a cinema near you.

The horror audience is among the most loyal out there, we do go and see films in the cinema (look at the business The Last Exorcism is doing) but the impatience (which I understand) and the sense of entitlement (wich I don't) of serial downloaders is not helping indie film at all.

[Satans Puppy]

The fact is people are going to do it and in the case of frozen where it leaks before release, it's the distributors and what not that NEED to tighten their measures when it comes to protecting releases. I know folks in uk disti firms who get a warning for merely looming at a disk the wrong way

The digital economy bill will do nothing but protect the guilty and harm the innocent... Because the serial downloaders will protect themselves with fancy dns routing and what not.

Someone actually asked me to Copy a umm album, I shall not incriminate myself... Oh go on kerry Ellis and Brian may but I said no no no it's her debut album and I want moooooore

[MaxRenn]

The fact is people are going to do it and in the case of frozen where it leaks before release, it's the distributors and what not that NEED to tighten their measures when it comes to protecting releases. I know folks in uk disti firms who get a warning for merely looming at a disk the wrong way

It's the distribution bit where indie films really suffer against studio product. Studios can coordinate a global release, but an indie film may end up released by different distributors which both means more potential leaks and leads to the situation Frozen finds itself in where British fans have to read about how great it is for 8-9 months before it comes out.

It's still not an excuse to steal someone's work, but I can understand why you might lose the willpower to wait. However don't go up to Adam Green and crow about how you downloaded his shit and expect him to shake your hand and thank you for being such a great supporter of his work. Would you nick produce from a farmer, then tell him how you blogged about how great it was to your mates, so he should thank you for the publicity? Of course you wouldn't.

Illegal downloading is a fact of life, and I'm sure Adam Green knows that all too well. But expecting him to embrace internet parasites and the culture of entitlement is BS.

[Satans Puppy]

To be honest I can't believe the sheer stupidity, they may as well ace mugged him there and then to really kick I'm in the teeth lol

It's shameful... Just gotta make sure that you take your mates to the cinema to see this one, I am!

[Pumpkin]

Yeah I can't believe the balls on some people. The number of signature muggers (and i mean the ebay crowd, not you Puppy!) who blatanly don't give a damn about the actual films and the people in it is ridiculous. To see lovely people like Kane Hodder, Adam Green - hell even Craig Fairbrass and Martin Kemp having hundreds of things thrust in their face to sign or yelled at to "show me your tattoo" (you wouldn't do that to a normal stranger would you?) and then when the celeb says "are watching the film/did you like the film" they say "no, not really my kind of thing" or something to that effect. Geez. I wouldn't have the front.

[Satans Puppy]

Yeah I can't believe the balls on some people. The number of signature muggers (and i mean the ebay crowd, not you Puppy!) who blatanly don't give a damn about the actual films and the people in it is ridiculous. To see lovely people like Kane Hodder, Adam Green - hell even Craig Fairbrass and Martin Kemp having hundreds of things thrust in their face to sign or yelled at to "show me your tattoo" (you wouldn't do that to a normal stranger would you?) and then when the celeb says "are watching the film/did you like the film" they say "no, not really my kind of thing" or something to that effect. Geez. I wouldn't have the front.

Oh I did that to Adam, told him I wasn't a fan of hatchet but loved spiral but then again you k someone their opinion you gotta be honest.

I was snitching on the ebayers all weekend lol they were in the foyer surrounding Kane and I told mr mcevoy who then told the manager and they were asked to leave it was a happy frightfest moment... Of course once the competition were removed I helped giz get his photo with Lane

It is a bit silly though to tell someone you stole their film but its okay because you liked it... Lol what planet are they living on?

[Pumpkin]

LOL sorry - i didn't mean that they didn't like the film, just that they had no intention of watching it because they don't care about the film or the people behind it, they just want their signatures and their photos that they can sell later. It was getting ridiculous with Kane at one point, there was one guy who I am not joking over the weekend must have got Kane to sign about 20 different things. Most of them are now on ebay. Although not as cold as Kane telling me that his half-sister once sold a load of personal things of his on ebay. Now that's harsh.

[Pumpkin]

PS just to get back on topic, I think it's a little erroneous to "blame" the distributors for letting the film leak. That's a bit like saying it's ok to steal my car if I forget to lock it. Although I agree there probably is more they could do to prevent the leaks. Srjdan and the other Serbian guys were saying that they have made a real effort to prevent leaks or at least track down any that occur. They were saying that every single screener they have given out is a unique cut of the film - each disc has a different frame cut from it so that any leaks can immediately be traced back.

[rawshark]

I completely agree with this topic and Adam's outrage.

Revovler signed A Serbian Film early in August. A few days later the first download link appeared online and was even mentioned on this forum. Combine that with the fact the film was pulled from FrightFest and it's easy to see how this has massively affected our release of this film and all the hard work we've so far put into it.

I'm constantly seeing posts all over the place on people who are seeing it (including, outrageously, friends on Facebook and on this forum) and actively encouraging others to see it too. I have been enraged many times by this to the point where I have sent many angry emails to people who have done this.

IT IS NOT COOL TO DOWNLOAD FILMS ILLEGALLY, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT HAVE NOT HAD A GENERAL RELEASE YET.

The producers are correct in saying that all screeners they sent out were 'individually marked'. The screener that leaked was one that was sent to the eventual sales agents. Unfortunately, the sales agents duplicated the screener they received to send to various UK distributors. This 'possibly' means that the leak was from a rival UK distributor, or someone they lent it to. The film's producers are currently trying to see if it can be tracked where the first instance the film was uploaded, but in all honesty, it's unlikely now the person who leaked it will be tracked down.

This really does affect the film industry as a whole, especially independent filmmakers and distributors who have limited marketing budgets to attract niche audiences. If you work in software development, and you just spent 12 months creating a great bit of software that would help the company you work for grow, would you really be ok if that software leaked online and all your target market suddenly helped themselves to it for free? No you wouldn't, it's not cool, and not ok and I agree with Adam Green here 100%...

[Maniacal]

I download illegally, it's wrong but i'm left with no other choice.I download films i know will never get a cinema release where i live or have been banned/cut on DVD. With the latter i then decide if the film is worth my money, and these are the strict guidelines i download by, the rest i will rent or buy when cheap enough. I don't condone downloading illegally, but with no other choice i have too.

In case of 'A Serbian Film' it's either wait until the CUT DVD is out later this year or hope for a cinema screening, which i already know will be Cut. So with that i downloaded it, i don't like the fact i did but what other choice was there?

[rawshark]

I download illegally, it's wrong but i'm left with no other choice.I download films i know will never get a cinema release where i live or have been banned/cut on DVD. With the latter i then decide if the film is worth my money, and these are the strict guidelines i download by, the rest i will rent or buy when cheap enough. I don't condone downloading illegally, but with no other choice i have too.

In case of 'A Serbian Film' it's either wait until the CUT DVD is out later this year or hope for a cinema screening, which i already know will be Cut. So with that i downloaded it, i don't like the fact i did but what other choice was there?

Sorry - what!? Left with no other choice? It's wrong - full stop!

For a start Maniacal, you don't know what our release plans are for this film. Nowhere has it actually been stated that the DVD WILL DEFINITELY be cut. There has been a cuts request from the BBFC, but who's to say we're not going to appeal, or are in the process of appealing? How do you know the theatrical release won't play near you?

Basically, you're saying you illegally obtained the film because you made uninformed assumptions and that you were impatient to see it before an official release. And you're spreading the message in public forum that it's ok to do so.

[Maniacal]

1) I know it's wrong, i stated that in my first sentence.
2) IF the DVD isn't cut it will be a miracle, good luck with the appeal.
3) I asked my local cinema manager if there where plans to show A Serbian Film, he said no.
4) You're right, i made assumptions based on previous events.
5) No where in my post does it state it's ok to download illegally.

[rawshark]

I had to calm down a bit before responding here. Now that I am a bit calmer, here goes...

The point of this topic was not only the fact that Adam Green was so annoyed about people downloading the film that he and the rest of his crew had worked so hard on, but the fact that people were then rubbing it in his face and using self-justification to argue the fact that they have a right to do so. In this instance, Maniacal, you seem to have done exactly the same thing.

You say "What other choice was there?" Er, how about the choice to not download it illegally? Or was that just simply not an option for you?

You say that you've not stated that it's ok to download it illegally. But purely by admitting that you have and that you had no other choice but to do so, you are implying in this case that you do think it is ok to do so - no matter how many times you type the words "I know it's wrong, but..."

I'm sorry, but you wouldn't steal a DVD from a shop such as HMV and then post on the HMV forums that you had stolen it. Why is it ok here?

Our company faces losing money because of film piracy. So let's flip this around. Let's say we are currently compiling a list of people posting on forums about seeing this film illegally and also collating ISP addresses where possible of people downloading torrents. Technically, your post on here is an admission of illegal activity, could be counted as evidence and could lead to you being fined for copyright theft.

Quite honestly, would you really be comfortable in court defending yourself by saying that you knew it was wrong, but were "left with no other choice, your honour"...?